8/24/2011 Banned - Smurfette

[Doppelgänger]

TIME: 8/24/2011 19:28:45
MAP: PL_Goldrush (1)
STEAM ID: STEAM_0:1:18032060
ADMINISTRATOR: Smurfette
SOURCEBANS: http://bans.theelders.net/index.php?p=banlist&searchText=STEAM_0:1:18032060&Submit

I recently received a permanent ban from the TE Team Fortress 2 server for "Being a Douchebag".

Long story short, a friend of mine was banned (at the time he told me it was permanent) for "spawn camping" when he went to the spawn to destroy the enemy teleporters so they could no longer funnel right back into a sentry fortified forward base. While killing the teleporters one of the Engineers came out of spawn and was killed in the process, as he was running away more people began to come out and fire, so he fought back while back-peddling. They told him to "stop spawn camping" which he did, though it isn't spawn camping. He simply said, while he was respawning a few minutes later, that he was destroying the teleporters and not spawn camping, yet he was still banned way after the fact.

So I, thinking he was perma-banned on trumped up bull, explained that it wasn't spawn camping to go destroy teleporters, and if you're faced with an enemy while doing so, the only course of action is to kill or be killed. I also brought up the fact that he stopped "spawn camping" after he was told, and was then banned simply for explaining himself. I told them it was wrong to perma-ban someone over something so small. Then I got the whole "you're next" talk which I felt was just adding insult to injury, being that we [both] had done nothing wrong up until that point, and said that it's this poor administration and quick ban fingers which has led to the decline of the server population, which it has. I play quiet regularly, maybe too much, and constantly see 0/24 on my favorites list, which is why we make it a point to join when there actually is people playing.

I think a permanent ban is a bit much.

[Doppelgänger]

Just to clarify, he was a Soldier. So it's not like he intentionally killed the Engineer; he was just collateral.

[Smurfette]

He was NOT a soldier, he was a demo.  I warned him several times in chat, and he continued to do camp.  He was not taking out tellies as we did not have any to take out!  I stood behind him and watched him do this repeatedly 3 or 4 times after i told him to stop.  Now, you most definitely have the right to protest your ban, but I can tell you it will not be lifted.  This was between he and I, and you had to jump in and start getting mouthy with an admin, when you had no place to do such a thing.  And on top of that, if this is such a major issue for your friend, why isn't he the one appealing the ban?  You can mouth off about how our server is lacking participation, yet I find it funny I am one of the main admins in here all the time and have never seen you our your friend in our server.  And we are full all the time!!  I never come in to anything less than a half full server.  So, that all being said, I bid you a good evening and best wishes in your future gaming.

[Hambubger]

I don't know what to say other than wow. She is completely fabricating the entire thing. Doppel's only inaccuracy was that I was indeed a Demoman. There were 2 teleporters in the back of the base I tried stickying and Smurffette was a heavy and shooting at me at the time. There was no 3 or 4 times. As soon as she told me to stop and I said I wasn't spawn camping she banned me for 30 minutes with being a douche as the reason.

Some other admin has to check the server logs and truly see what happened. Smurfette with all do respect is being completely inaccurate and just rude for no reason. Check out the log around the time of our ban and you will see she is completely fabricating everything.

And how am I never on the server yet I am ranked EIGHTH!? I play Elders all the time and this is the first time I have ever had a problem with anyone.

Doppelganger is a friend of mine and he was just standing up for me. He shouldn't be permabanned. So one please understand.

[Doppelgänger]

He was NOT a soldier, he was a demo.  I warned him several times in chat, and he continued to do camp.  He was not taking out tellies as we did not have any to take out!  I stood behind him and watched him do this repeatedly 3 or 4 times after i told him to stop.  Now, you most definitely have the right to protest your ban, but I can tell you it will not be lifted.  This was between he and I, and you had to jump in and start getting mouthy with an admin, when you had no place to do such a thing.  And on top of that, if this is such a major issue for your friend, why isn't he the one appealing the ban?  You can mouth off about how our server is lacking participation, yet I find it funny I am one of the main admins in here all the time and have never seen you our your friend in our server.  And we are full all the time!!  I never come in to anything less than a half full server.  So, that all being said, I bid you a good evening and best wishes in your future gaming.

Yeah, that was my bad. The fact that he was a Demoman was brought to my attention just a little bit ago after I had already typed this up. And yes, there were indeed teleporters, some of which were not functioning, but that's beside the point. I was told he only did through two lives, he and I [both] did not see any chat warnings. I'm sure you're telling the truth, but next time after a written warning, you should move to a verbal warning. Chat very often gets buried or not read at all mid-game when people are playing intensely.

But regardless of all that, I don't think "spawn camping" is grounds for a permanent ban. It's obvious it was a simple misunderstanding between you and him.

I'm appealing [my] ban. As was banned [permanently] for what I said in the above post. No racism, no sexism and no profanity where in what I said. I was simply stating facts and saying I was giving attitude may even be stretching it.

Also, I don't know where the server is hosted, but I'm genunine when I say it's nearly always empty when I'm on, but again, that's beside the point. And while [you] may never see us, he is ranked #8 on the server and I'm sure I'm not far behind.

[Doppelgänger]

I guess I should have made it clear in the first post thatI was protesting my ban. My bad again.

[crazydog]

Relevant chat:

Chronological order, there may or may not have been other messages in between

TE | Smurfette : hamburg that is spawn camping. I see it again you will be kicked!
TE | Smurfette : STICKIES AT SPAWN DOOR IS SPAWN CAMPING. IF I SEE IT ANYMORE YOU WILL BE KICKED!
Hambubger|w.gang : that wasnt spawn camping...
TE | Smurfette : It is on our server. we have rules. if you dont like it leave
Hambubger|w.gang : I cant teleporters.... at base this is bullshit . admin abuse
TE | Smurfette : no u were killing ppl
Hambubger|w.gang: wow I am going to report you. I cant kill spawn building. I have played here for months and never got this crap....
*Hambubger|w.gang banned*
Doppelgänger : He was killing teleporters and you walked out...that's not spawn camping. And then you ban him for questioning how that was
Doppelgänger : spawn camping? Terrible admins
Nron : he was spawn camping
Nron : he killed those coming out of spawn
Nron : not just the tele
TE | Smurfette : I game a clear warning, he was not taking out tellys - we didnt have any up!
Doppelgänger : should he just run away to an arbitary distance from spawn to start fighting back?
Ghost Nappa : or they were useless tellys
Doppelgänger : makes no sense.
TE | Smurfette : keep it up and you can join him!
Doppelgänger : that's the good admin spirit
TE | Smurfette : our server, our rules
Doppelgänger : keep your non-populated server non-populated
Doppelgänger : because you're an awful admin
TE | Smurfette : oh we have no trouble populating
Doppelgänger : rofl
Doppelgänger : lies
Nron: I SEE A
Nron: full server here most hours of the day

I wasn't there, so I don't know all the details surrounding Hambubger's ban, however, in my opinion Doppelgänger's ban will stand as is.

[Giant Flying Head]

There's enough discussion here. If needed this will be discussed in the privet section further.

[WidowMaker]

I got a PM on this and wanted to reply as not to ignore a PM from anyone.

I have to say this, It is our policy that the admin who bans someone is also the admin who has to un-ban. We do not go against fellow admins unless there is a blatant disregard to the server rules. ie. banning someone for them killing your ass all the time

With that being said Smurfette would have to be the one to un-ban. I would like to say this, during game time things get heated and people say things that offend others and also admins do things that may not have been appropriate looking back. A spawn camping ban is fine, a permanent ban seems harsh but at the time an argument happened and a perm ban was done to both. We have the forums and appeals so that the parties involved can come in once they have calmed down and state their case. Things are usually a little more civil in the forums. Coming in and calling admins names and yelling and screaming is not going to make things better.

We do not perma-ban for spawn camping but disrespecting an admin calls for one.

I think that both have come in the forums here and stated their case and was not disrespectful in any way, but looking at the chat they were, and I understand the ban. Like I said things get heated in the game and things get said.

My recommendation would be to have a private chat or get in vent with Smurfette and straighten everything out. You guys seem respectful for the most part and maybe Smurfette will see things different if you just talk to her. She is a good admin and would not perma-ban for nothing.

Widow

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