Kanye West is an idiot....

[Cole]

ho hum.  sry i said anything guys.  most of you are missing my point.  that's ok.  spend a day in camden with a typical "black" family (of three people mind you), and then you'll know what I'm trying to say. 

[NightTrain]

LMAO.  Public education is free.  With an education and some ambition you can do whatever you want in this world, especially this country.  The key is effort and ambition and this is what is lacking with those in poverty.  It is so easy to sit back and blame everyone else for one's position and doing this requires no education, no ambition and no effort.  The large majority of those that formed this country had to work their asses off to stay alive, never mind become successful.  But in time, the roots of this country grew deep and strong due to a lot of hard work and effort.

My grandmother came to this country from Ireland in the early 1900's on fucking boat with nothing.  She got a job, worked her ass off so she could put her kids to college.  The result was my mother becoming a nurse.  My mother then married a teacher and they raised my sisters and I.  We (my sisters and I) worked our asses off and earned our place in decent colleges all while going to public elementary and high schools.  All the while my parents continued to also work their asses off so they could support the three of us in great schools that cost big money (WPI, Holy Cross, Boston College).  We all graduated and are doing just fine financially.

What's the point?  Two generations after coming here in the same fucking position as all those in this fucking country complaining about "poverty" - our family is doing great and moving upwards.  Why, because we have ambition and applied a great deal of effort and continue to work hard.  I hope my daughters and my nieces and nephews will continue my family's progress up the "food chain" and I'm sure they will.

So, the moral of the story is - poverty only exists for those too fucking lazy to do something about it.  It's really not difficult to get out - you just have to work your ass off...and your parents have to work their asses off...and your children have to work their asses off...and their children have to...you get the point.

Great post!

This is so true.  Poor people can just use free education and some hard work to dig themselves out.  They can go to colleges for free because of their low income and in the case of blacks because of their skin color.  Just takes hard work is all.  One of the great lines of all time from one of the great movies of all time is "stupid is as stupid does".  Just means that you are stupid if you chose to be.  And you are lazy if you chose to be.  Its all choice.

There is also another path.  My father grew up poor white trash.  He was so poor it was amazing.  He was poor because his folks were to lazy and too ignorant to do anthing about it.  Well, he quit high school at the age of 16 to join the Air Force with his older brother.  When they got to the physical, his brother failed and he passed and he was whisked off to the Air Force by himself at 16 years old.  You know what he did?  He worked his ass off, climbed up the ranks, finished his education in the service, made Staff Seargent as an unlisted man and served for 2 years in Korea.  He then left the military after 10 hard years of work, took a job fixing computers for an insurance company in Maine (one computer was the size of a room back then).  He spent 36 years at that company and worked his way up to Vice President in charge of all east coast operations.  Number 2 guy in Zurich insurance. 

Moral of the story....if you are poor it is because you choose to be poor.  There are so many opportunities in this country to make money that all you need to do is work.  There is no bigger misservice to poor people than to make excuses for them.  They need to be looking for a hand up and not a hand out. 

I'm not saying upbringing doesn't have anything to do with the people we become...but it's not an excuse for being lazy thats for damn sure.  If you are looting 42" tv's because you feel entitled because your are poor white trash or a lazy black, then you are a LOSER!  Get ajob, do some work and make soemthing of your selves!   

[Death_ADDER]

roger that... you only get back from life what you put in life... period.

Steve

[hammertime]

So, the moral of the story is - poverty only exists for those too fucking lazy to do something about it.  It's really not difficult to get out - you just have to work your ass off...

No offense to Spike, but this is exactly the type of ignorance I'm talking about

[Paladin_Godfather]

how is that possibly ignorant?? if a person doesnt show any desire to learn a skill or trade in life and then is poor, how is it not their fault?? granted, there are those with mental handicaps that prevent them from becoming higher up workers, but that percentage is merely a fraction of the impoverished population in the US... facts are facts.. those that are poor and bitch about life are usually those that dont try and inevitably fail.... whether they are black, white, green, blue, or yellow.... death said it best... you reap what you sow..

[hammertime]

it's ignorant because it's completely wrong, thats why.

you know, it's not even worth arguing...like cole said you'll never know until you experience it. i'm done with this thread

[Death_ADDER]

lol my family was on welfare untill I was 13... I got my first computer from the salvation army. why? cause my dad worked community service there. he didn't have the balls to get off welfare and get a decent job/a car that actually works and a decent place to live. I've been working since I was 16 (after I graduated high school and got my CCNA). I never did anymore schooling and so on. I can still live better then average right now... there is so many options open to people that are poor... to get some education or just to get the skills to make a decent living... but people are too lazy to wake up at 5AM everyday work and come home. how do sports stars? movie stars? singers? and all of them made millions? sure wasn't by sitting at home waiting for their welfare check to come in and they will all tell you that. You will only get out of life what you put in and thats the basic of it seriously.

Steve

[Paladin_Godfather]

lol my family was on welfare untill I was 13... I got my first computer from the salvation army. why? cause my dad worked community service there. he didn't have the balls to get off welfare and get a decent job/a car that actually works and a decent place to live. I've been working since I was 16 (after I graduated high school and got my CCNA). I never did anymore schooling and so on. I can still live better then average right now... there is so many options open to people that are poor... to get some education or just to get the skills to make a decent living... but people are too lazy to wake up at 5AM everyday work and come home. how do sports stars? movie stars? singers? and all of them made millions? sure wasn't by sitting at home waiting for their welfare check to come in and they will all tell you that. You will only get out of life what you put in and thats the basic of it seriously.

Steve

 

[flintlock]

In defense of the Black commuities of this country and believe me, I'm no expert, there is plenty of evidence that shows it more difficult to get ahead as a black person. As much as I hate to admit it, there are plenty of people in this country that believe they should all still be slaves. But if we're talking about the poorest of the poor, I don't think there's an excuse to stay there. Even a job that pays minimum wage is better than collecting walfare and blowing the money on drugs and alchohol when they should be buying a house instead. Don't misread that last sentance as a blanket statement. We are talking about a small percentage of black people nation wide, but the ones stealing the shit in N.O and the ones rapping about drugs and bitches and the ones burning down South Central LA are the ones that get all the press.

Atlanta Georgia has the largest percentage of Black Millionairs in the country and there are plenty of successful minoritires in this country as well. Hey, the Irish were a minority once.

But getting back to Cole's Socioechonomic elements, there is obviously something else at work in N.O and at the time in LA that was/is specific to those areas that probably had more of an impact on the aftermath than just simple poverty. What about all the people that actually left N.O, how many of them were black? The looters are the ones that stayed behind and you have to wonder why. They ignored orders to evacuate and maybe it's becasue they didn't have the means, or maybe it's becasue they simply didn't want to listen to what their officials told them to do. I don't know the answer to that, but there were N.O police officers looting too and you can't tell me they were poor.

When I started typing this Adder hadn't posted yet, but his point is right on. The opportuities are out there, some just have to work harder for them.

[_Blue]

how is that possibly ignorant?? if a person doesnt show any desire to learn a skill or trade in life and then is poor, how is it not their fault?? granted, there are those with mental handicaps that prevent them from becoming higher up workers, but that percentage is merely a fraction of the impoverished population in the US... facts are facts.. those that are poor and bitch about life are usually those that dont try and inevitably fail.... whether they are black, white, green, blue, or yellow.... death said it best... you reap what you sow..

how is it a non desire? Have you ever tried getting around an entire day without the use of a car? Let alone in an area where you can't just ask someone for a ride or borrow someone elses car.  People love to talk about how easy it is to escape poverty, and hell yeah it does take a lot of determination to get out and it IS possible, buttry surviving a week without a car, without being able to drive to your job or drive home.  Then take your salary and cut it to minimum wage.  You can't get a better job because you can't afford to buy nice clothes for any real interview, and you have to worry about your rent or bills or food or children before you can think about things like clothes.  Assuming you can get to your job every day and do it well, maybe you start to make some money and can save up some.  Things are looking pretty good. Now try to pay those bills every month, and then your kid gets sick.  I'm pretty sure you don't have medical insurance, so what should you do then? Let your kid die, or move all the money you can into saving him.  Well there goes all your funds.  People get sick, people get hurt.  If it was only about not being lazy, I'm pretty damn sure we wouldn't have as many poor as we do in America.  As for free educations, yeah public school is free, assuming you have a halfway decent public school within walking distance from your home, but where are the free colleges that are going to really give you any kind of usable degree? And just to cover my bases, should all poor have to join the military to make a living? Isn't that how most governments are overthrown, when the poor come to realise they really do make up the majority. Being poor sucks, I haven't been to these extremes but me and my Dad were at some low points before he got remarried, and it isn't easy.

[Death_ADDER]

blue your making some good points... I dont know the welfare/unemployment system in the US but in canada they will help pay/support families where they could go to school or training for jobs and help them get some work. I heard the welfare system in the US being a lot more harsh then the one in canada. my family spent over 10 years on welfare and tell you the truth I think its just working the system... when I work and I see how much gets taken out in taxes it really pisses me off that I'm paying for families like I once was. I had no choice it was really my parents decision but I do NOT support that at all. I dont believe that people should have the right to live off the system... the human was once a less civilized animal and used to HAVE to hunt and work for the food that they ate.

Steve

[Cole]

methampethamines.  crack cocaine.  domestic abuse.  daily rape.  severe mental illness.  no health care system.

I once had a conversation with Al.  Al was an 18 year old black ghetto kid who worked at my plant.  Al was bright and misguided.  He had a slightly over minimum wage job with benefits, that was dangerous heavy industrial labor (ever see a guy get his ear cut off?  how about his leg?)  That was it for him.  He would give me the whitey's bringing me down bs all the time.  I told him of the countless opportunities there are availabe to him, just because he's black.  He never heard of the united negro college fund.  He didn't know that college wasn't just for super smart people.  He didn't know these were options.  His Camden NJ education sucked balls.  He'd have trouble even if he knew how to get into college.  Even community school.  He was raised by grandma.  No grandpa, no dad, no mom.  Just him and a bother and grandma.  His homelife was so fucked, his mom and dad were around in his early childhood.  You have an idea why they left. 

I see these little 6 year olds, and hear thier stories every day in Webster.  Some of them make you sick.  A six year old should have to deal with, "yeah, my mom smokes crack".  You see, even if this kid never touches dope, the cards are stacked against him.  Especially since he has a malformed nervous system since mom was also an alcoholic.

These are problems of poverty.  These people need escape more than us.  These people are here because of mental illness, not just laziness.  Sure there are lazy people, we are some of them.  You know you could work harder.  Shit, I could have gone to MIT, but I didn't want to work that hard.  I'm not stupid enough to let shit happen to me, then again my mental state doesn't include the problems I've seen with guys like Al. 

All I'm saying is that what you guys are saying is correct, if you're not in a situation like Al's which is all too common in urban poor america.  Meth brings issues like this to rural poor and middle class america, but the family structure is stronger there.  None of this is an excuse.  It's just information necessary for empathy. 

[Death_ADDER]

well said... my dad is an alcoholic... he is also a big dealer for the hells angels... I made my choices when I was young and stuck to em... never tried any drugs... I drink on weekends... average of once a week maybe at the most... lately I haven't had any since I've been doing a lot of training and need to cut a lil.

Steve

[Cole]

yeah but you're not normal...lol.  You're exemplary.

[Death_ADDER]

I think your the first person ever to say that lmao.

Steve

Cannot access offset of type string on string