The Elders' House of Pain
Server Forum => Team Fortress 2 Pub (72.5.152.147) => Topic started by: Frag_68 on September 24, 2010, 06:34:48 PM
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It's getting old.
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I'd figure you'd make a thread about this, to be honest i pick random most of the time, unless someone requests me to be on their team. Today it was Paint and his buddies stackin it up, i'll try and put up more scramble votes though.
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I've always been a random kind of guy. The thing is, is that some people like to play with the people they know and not against them. I've never really fully understood this cause playing against them is just as fun. Though, I do respect their choice. Sure it sucks getting mopped all the time, but t makes YOU better in the end. Suck it up, move on, it's just a game.
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Yea, here's the funny thing about that. If I'm on the constantly losing team, I don't have fun playing. When I'm not having fun playing a game, I have no reason to play it.
Teams are constantly being stacked. People aren't picking a team because they don't want to be on the loser team. Is there a setting to limit how long someone is at the team picking screen? I think that'd go a long way to help the problem.
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I don't know if this is possible with tf2, but somehow in bad company 2 there is a way to limit the number of times someone changes teams.
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Here are the available options for this:
-Built in TF2 cvar that automatically picks your team (brought up before, members don't like it).
-Sourcemod plugin that does the same as above, but includes admin immunity.
-Auto-scramble teams after the waiting for players round
-Sourcemod plugin that does the following (author's description): "When the teams are stacked and a client attempts to join the winning team, the client gets teleported to the enemy base to be humiliated by death (w/ instant respawn). The humiliation ends when the opposite team kills the client 10 times."
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I don't like any of those to be honest. I am with GFH on the fact that we like to play with friends. Sometimes I go on certain teams so I dont have to deal with being stabbed in the back (like by Taso, Spevf or Sloth). So, just saying, I think GFH is right, it makes you better in the end. And to be honest, I have been on the 'stacked' team several times and had my ass kicked!! So, it could go both ways.
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Yeah, I get a little tired of it myself. I do my best to join teams so not all the TE members are on one side, but sometimes I get tired of getting rolled and I stop caring. Fact is, we have a lot of regulars who are also really good at the game, and they're under no obligation to even the teams out and keep things honorable/challenging-- and if you think about it, aside from keeping the server a nice place to play, TE members aren't obligated either. We play to have fun and sometimes that means creating a situation where we play with people we know and end up very likely to win.
If we add in plugins that force team randomization or balancing, then it just turns into a Harrison Bergeron situation where we have to hold the hands of the lowest common denominators on the team. I think the votescramble options are fine as they are right now (asking for vote scramble after it detects a team getting rolled, and having a pretty low manual votescramble vote minimum). That said, I think TE members (and the regulars that read the forum) should at least try to make a voluntary effort to switch up every now and then when people are getting rolled.
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Just was playing and the one team was stacked like noones business. Put up multiple scrable votes and it always failed. I donno what to say bout this one.
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On the playground we'd pick 2 team captains and let them pick their team. Since that would be overkill on a TF2 server, auto-assign based on the player's current server rank would be good. In a nod to the people that like to play with certain other people, we could allow people to register 1 person that they'd always be paired with if the person was already on the server...
Of course, I'm just talking out my...
If you combined this with a forced scramble (including spectators) at the end of the waiting for players stage, we'd pretty much solve the perceived stacking problem.
now that I'm thinking about this more...what about just pure peer pressure. How hard would it be to write a plugin that displayed the "stackedness" of the teams based on player rank at certain parts of the game?
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Because the rank isn't completely skill based, it's really based on how much you play on the server. That, and for some people, luck. Taking the shotgun approach to increasing their rank, playing a bunch and they're bound to get some kills.
I don't think that'd be the best idea.
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I just prefer to play with people that know what there doing and mesh with my playstyle. I like to be on a team where I can switch classes as the situation dictates and not worry that will make things worse. For me, it's not about stacking so much as playing with my friends and people that play well as a team. Sometimes that means I avoid a losing team, not because i like to win, but because I like to enjoy my time playing.
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. In a nod to the people that like to play with certain other people, we could allow people to register 1 person that they'd always be paired with if the person was already on the server...
The scramble plugin does support buddies, but most people don't know how or don't care to use the feature.
now that I'm thinking about this more...what about just pure peer pressure. How hard would it be to write a plugin that displayed the "stackedness" of the teams based on player rank at certain parts of the game?
We don't really have access to the stats database, so it'd be a challenge, and as Gumby said, rank isn't skill based. Most likely, the more you play on the server, the higher your rank will be.
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I opened the topic because I too like to play with friends rather than against them. Usually the most fun I have is when the server is just starting up. A little 4 on 4 or so and we're forced to split the regulars up... and it's great! But with the larger numbers, EVERYONE wants to be on the stacked team. I know that they don't always win, but they usually do. And the regulars who realize how bad the teams are stacked against them just leave. And THAT's the problem.
And you know what... it doesn't make me a better player by getting annihilated. And I don't play games to be awesome at them, I could care less. I play them to have fun. Which is why I go play another game or join a different server when I get the raw end of the deal after hitting random for 3 maps in a row. The TE server may be for TE, but your community also supports you and keeps the servers hopping.
That said, I think TE members (and the regulars that read the forum) should at least try to make a voluntary effort to switch up every now and then when people are getting rolled.
I agree. It's fun to kill your friends, too! :) I'm not asking that we do anything server-side. But as an admin, you have a responsibility to make sure things aren't getting stupidly out of hand. Shoot.... just force a scramble instead of voting for it. More people will stay if they win once in a while.
</rant>
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I was thinking about this topic at work today and came upon something I thought of before. Perhaps it's not the teams that are stacked, but TF2 that's unbalanced. I'm sure a few of you have heard me rant about this. Ever since the NG update the game is no longer balanced. My guess is the ability to move sentries. This alone has really wedged the ability to flank and sneak. The surprise it's a lv3, then plan for it to be some wheres else next run then have it else where. I do like being able to move my sentry but it has REALLY unbalanced the game IMO. Even if I'm wrong (which is quite probable), there's something. Something that is making it very hard to turn the tide when things start to tip.
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I was thinking about this topic at work today and came upon something I thought of before. Perhaps it's not the teams that are stacked, but TF2 that's unbalanced.
We could try playing one day with unlocks disabled, and do some experimentation. :P
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so...
in summary, it sounds like:
- Some people have issue with actual (or perceived) team stacking and would like for some way to prevent/reduce it from happening
- Some people want to be able to play with whoever they want to play with
I fully expect this to be a problem that we don't find a solution for, but I'm willing to keep throwing ideas out there...And I've got no idea if any of this is possible...
- Force auto-assign at map start during waiting for players, keep stats from the pre-round mayhem and use those stats to auto-balance teams. After the map starts, any player can join any team that's legal? Admins can unbalance teams to switch to play with someone they want to play with (or make them use the buddy command?)
...still thinking
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I was thinking about this topic at work today and came upon something I thought of before. Perhaps it's not the teams that are stacked, but TF2 that's unbalanced.
We could try playing one day with unlocks disabled, and do some experimentation. :P
Getting rid of unlocks would not help the moving sentries problem.
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If the regs/TE members take it upon themselves to just hit random every once in a while, it'll help solve the problem. If it's still out of whack, force a scramble. No extravagent solution needed.
I don't think messing with the game mechanics/unlocks would solve anything.
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If the regs/TE members take it upon themselves to just hit random every once in a while, it'll help solve the problem. If it's still out of whack, force a scramble. No extravagent solution needed.
I don't think messing with the game mechanics/unlocks would solve anything.
Everyone does realize that when a player hits the "Random" button, it's not really random, right?
Pressing the random button assigns you to:
Red - when there are more Blu players than Red players.
Blu - in all other cases.
So if I want to play on the same team as kLine, and he's on Red, but I want to appear to be on a Random team, I just have to wait until Blu has more players than Red and press the Random button.
But assuming that nobody is intentionally being devious (aka working the random button), pressing Random doesn't do anything to solve the "Perceived" stacking.
Assume for a minute that everyone joins random, and there are two TE players on the server. Odss are 50/50 that they'll be on the same team. Even though they really joined random, it's still going to be perceived that they "stacked".
Also note that just because there are two TE players on that team, does not mean that the team is actually "stacked". Tsao and I could actually really, really suck.
I don't mind hitting the random button (and I do)...
but I'm still going Red on PL maps
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Hit the random button 99% of the time. Also normally the 1st-2nd one in.
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I am far too tired and my head is pounding, so I'll have to save reading the entirity of this thread for later, but i just wanted to make my opinion clear.
this server stacks way too much and its hurt the community. just my two cents.