Class limits?

[Hitman Smurf]

With the server being full all of the time and a 32 slot one at that I think it may be time we reconsider class limits. There have been too many recent eoisodes of 5 spies/snipers/pyros and the like. If we want to run a competitve server, and not a noob farm , that focuses on tactics and teamplay class limits are a necessary evil. What do you think and what are some proposed class limitations?

Some proposed limitations:

2 spies
2-3 snipers
3 pyros
4-5 engies

scout, heavy, soldier, demo and medic I dont think need any limitation.

[Smurfette]

I have to disagree about scout!  I don't play it, at all, but I fight against it...and for example, the other night when the opposite team had like 6 scouts guarding a point, that is insane!  When they all use the force of nature, it is very hard to fight against them.  I think we should limit the scout class also, possibly to 2 or 3.  Otherwise, I agree with the other limitations.

[Spevf]

I would like to see a class in place for certain classes but what about people who are good at one type of class and if that class is full they can't play it. They are then forced to play another class which they may not be so good at and from there you may have an unbalance game as far as skill is concerned. All I would like to see is a fair game, win or lose.

[Hitman Smurf]

All I would like to see is a fair game, win or lose.

That's the ideas with class limits. As for scouts, if you want to limit it at all I say 4.

[Video_Master]

I have to disagree with class limits.  We are not running a CAL type of server, this is a pub.  Yes we get alot of the very good players, but we get noobs also.  We tried class limits before and we lost a lot of our regulars because of it.  So I am voting NO to the class limits.  Part of being a team is figuring out a stratedgy to defeat the other teams stratedgy.

Plus it would not allow us to have fun like we have done some times where the entire team goes heavy or spy or scout or pyro.

Class limits actually make it unfair cause then people have to play a class that they may not be good at.

[InzZzaNe]

My only opinion here is
i dislike servers with a limit on snipers, because it ends up with 2 or 3 guys just sitting in the back as sniper doing nothing with everyone else asking for new snipers but they wont give up their spots

[Spevf]

So what are we to do if we end up with.... lets say 7 engineers on one team while the other team is full of people who don't know that a medic demo combo could wipe that out. Just lastnight we saw this. One team team had 7 eniners and the other team had no chance to cap the point. Right after that match about half of the team raged quit. So what would be the best course of action there?

[Hitman Smurf]

At least limit engies...thats the main issue.

[Smurfette]

I think it is wonderful that we can put this up for a vote here on our site...however for those ppl who play on our servers regularly and do not frequent our site, this is not really a fair decision.  I have heard on several occasions that we should have limits on certain classes - engie and scout are the main 2.  So, while our opinions definitely matter, we need to find a way to bring the regulars into this.  Advertise class limits on the side of the screen and get a vote that way, or guide them to our site here.  It's not always about what "we" want - we have to consider the regulars also.

[Rally Pig]

im stuck on the fence and my ...... hurts i agree with both sides

i feel that some classes should be capped, engi, scout, sniper, Spy, maybe heavy....i say the first 4 cause a whole team could go engi and the whole defense would be sentries, scout cause no need for more than 2 or 3,  sniper yes and no cause the huntsman does SOMETIMES cause you to move up unlike the rifle where you can sit just bout anywhere and get a headshot fest no need for more than 4 max EVER....spy like scout should be limited to 2 or 3 cause it can be left to people who are good at it annoying to see the same guy everytime try to back stab you with the razorback on....

it does get annoying having to baby sit saying (or hear) we dont need 5 snipers,4 spies, 5 scouts and so on

yet on the other hand on GOOD nights people know what classes to play and adjust to what is needed for map, and so on...and we never have class issues

so more or less seems to come down to who is actually playing on the server

[Baltika (#9)]

I think I'm going to have to agree w/ Video on this one...
There are times when I'd like to see my team have 2 snipers instead of 5.  But there are also times when I'd like to get some practice with a class that I don't usually play.  I can make the decision based on the seriousness of the team and the likelihood that me overpopulating a class would cause long term problems for the team.
5 pyros?  Makes sense when the other team has 3 decent spies.

As for Smurfette's concern about the forum not being representative, is there a way to set up a poll in-game?


And while I have everyone's attention (and completely off topic):
<soapbox>
I enjoy playing medic.  Really, I do.
Over the last couple of nights, I've heard some complaints about medics from both TE and non-TE players.
Stuff like: 
 - medics should heal teammates instead of shooting at the enemy
 - there's a medic sitting in spawn with an uber
 - our medics suck
 - "MY" medic left me
I'll just throw out a couple of suggestions/reasons that will hopefully help us all get better at playing together:
1.  The Blut. gives me health.  Sometimes I need that +3 more than you need to be healed.
2.  The Blut is a good spy checker.
3.  Sometimes anything that I can do to stop the cart.
4.  Sometimes I just like shooting people (I know, it's lame, but sometimes it's just fun).
5.  On BLU, I will sit in spawn with an uber for a little while.  We've got a faster respawn time than they do, and ubering the second or third wave out of BLU will often times be more effective for deeper penetration than "wasting" it battling an uber-pyro as soon as the gates open.
6.  Sometimes I'm a walking health dispenser for you, and you can call me "your" medic - other times it irks me.  I can try to be better about telling you that I'm going to switch off you to accomplish some other goal (heal someone that's on fire), if I've been latched onto you for a while.
7.  Our medics suck, or spies suck, our snipers suck, our engineers suck....if those words form in your brain...maybe it'd be a good idea to make some constructive suggestions to that player about how they could get better.  Really.  Who knows, that player might have a better experience on your server, come back more often, and get better - thereby making your server better.  For example, I'd love some advice from Video about how to be a better sniper (besides using the arc of my Blut. to take out a heavy that can't see me!)
</soapbox>

[Spevf]

This seems like this issuse is going to take awhile to resolve. Both sides have valid points. And I think both sides should be looked into a bit further. Can you guys do a test run to see if it will be effective? Or as Baltika sort of put it, maybe educate some of the players in a nice way. ( And I do mean those who don't play alot of a certain class or are just new to the game in general) I have only been playing on this server for a little under a week but I have notice that the games played here are up there as far as skill is concered. All in all I would just like to see a fair game gor both sides with no problems. Like not having enough medics or too many engis for example.

[Mach]

I guess you could put me in the no camp here for class limits.


Do I get frustrated when we have say 6 of any class I feel like playing at the moment?  Yes I do.  But I realize that I can help out in other ways and just move on to another class.

I think that b/c it is a competitive server that we should be approaching this in the exact opposite way Smurf.  The server shouldn't be guiding people into what they should/need to play to achieve a balance on the teams.  If a team of pros wants to do 6 engineers to blockade a point, they should be allowed to do it.  They just need to realize that when I go in there with an ubered medic as a demo its going to be that much easier to take out a ton of crap all at once.

I always feel it is up to the other team to modify their strats to how the other side is playing.  By putting class limits in, you're effectively taking out a lot of the strategy component.  I do agree that when you see 5 spies on your team you get a little disheartened, but that's what the microphone is for!  Let them hear it and usually I see a few less of what ever class was overloaded.


Anyways I feel that letting teams figure out their team makeup on their own is the way to go.  Class limits in my mind will make the game too predictable, ie "well they can only have 2 engineers and I don't see any here so I know now where they'll be" rather then "better duck in and out around the corner b/c I have no idea where a gun might be" sort of thing.

[Luggage]

I voted "no".  Just like Mach said, it is frustrating when people don't play with the team and you have 6 snipers (or whatever), but a big part of the game (and associated fun) is dynamic class changing which keeps the gameplay experience on the same handful of maps different and thus interesting based on team composition.

If things get one-sided due to 7 engies that the other team is not skilled or organized enough to work around, then we should heartily use the team scramble/shuffle option.

[Baltika (#9)]

Does anyone use the votescramble?  I've never been online when there was a scramble.  It seems like it would only ever be useful if the same map was played more than once in a row...maybe it's used on CTF maps?  I wouldn't want to be scrambled during a CP or PL map - even if I was getting rolled.

Is there a way to implement a rotation where the same map is played 2 times in a row, and the teams are auto-scrambled after the first time through?  Since I always join as Red:  defend, then attack, scramble, then attack/defend, then defend/attack?

I know someone else has posted a request to be able to play the same map 2 times in a row before.

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